Very poor support from Palm

[beezly]

My 2-week old 680 broke on Sunday. I didn't drop it. It hasn't been misused. I picked it up from the table about half an hour after I made a call and the display had a crack in it.



So, I checked on the Palm website and discovered that a "Cracked/Broken Display" is not covered by warranty. Under UK consumer law (the Sale of Goods Act), it is the retailer (in this case Expansys), not the manufacturer who takes responsibility for the goods they sell. So I emailed them;

I ordered a Treo 680 from you about two weeks ago.

The phone arrived and has been working fine until today.

The LCD display appears to be cracked - I had put the phone down on a
table after making a call with it and then half an hour later, when I
next came to use it, the display was unreadable and a crack is
visible.

I have tried navigating the Palm website. If I follow the Knowledge
Library through to "Display, Cracked/Broken" I get the following;

"My screen has broken. Why is this not covered under product warranty?

The screen is a complex 3-part assembly comprising a glass-basedexpant
digitiser, liquid crystal display and electronics circuit card. Screen
"breakages" normally involve cracking of the glass based digitiser and
occur when the unit is subjected to physical stresses that are
inconsistent with the device's normal use. As such the breakage is not
related to any manufacturing or hidden product defect and so is not
covered by the manufacturing warranty."

It seems to be impossible to contact Palm to get them to sort it out
(without paying for the pleasure!) and I would expect that putting
(not dropping!) the phone on the table would be considered "normal
use". As such I consider this to be a manufacturing defect. What do I
need to do to organise replacement or repair under warranty?

Some one from Expansys got back to me asking me to get in contact with Palm's UK service centre by phone. I did that. Service was not so great. The guy on the end of the phone (I didn't manage to catch his name) didn't have a very professional manner (answer the phone with "Hello?" for a start!). He also managed to note down my e-mail address and name incorrectly.

Palm support asked me to send a picture of the damage to an e-mail address. I did that and waited.

The next day, I rang them back. They hadn't received the picture, even though I had received an automated response from them after I sent it.

The support agent (Tomas) was much more helpful and suggested that he send me an e-mail first and that I reply to it with the picture attached. I did that, and waited.

Later that afternoon I received a response from Palm, this time from a support agent called Kerstin;

A cracked screen is an out of warranty case. The out of warranty repair would cost 110,00 GBP.

Please let us know on how to proceed further, if you want to do the repair etc.

I was not happy with this response. I don't see why I should pay 110GBP to fix a 2-week old phone that has not been mistreated. So I replied;

I understand that normally the display is not covered by warranty repair. In the "Cracked/Broken Display" section on your website it says;

'Screen "breakages" normally involve cracking of the glass based digitiser and occur when the unit is subjected to physical stresses that are inconsistent with the device's normal use.'

In this case there has been no "abnormal" use. I put the phone down on the table after making a call and upon picking it up the display was cracked. I live alone, so no one else had touched the phone and there are no pets in my house! As you may be able to see from the photograph, the phone is in immaculate condition (ignoring the cracked display), without a single scratch. The fault was not caused by misuse, an accident or by not following the instructions.

I would like the device to be repaired without cost to me.

Then the best bit... Here's the reply I got from Kerstin the next morning;

I understand your point. Shit happens at times. The problem is that a cracked scren is a cracked screen.

So I'm afraid to say, but its still out of warranty.

Yes, you read that properly...

Shit happens...

anyway... as I seem to have exhausted things with Palm... back to Expansys. I emailed them again;

I have spoken with Palm Technical Support. They have advised me that a cracked display is not covered by their warranty. Whilst I would like to continue taking this up with them, I am aware that under the Sale of Goods Act, the responsibility for goods which are not of satisfactory quality lies with the retailer, so my only legal recourse is with Expansys.

Could you advise me how I can get a repair or replacement of my Treo 680 without any cost to me

I got an e-mail back about an hour later...

Thankyou for your e-mail regarding the damaged Palm Treo 680. Having checked with returns eXpansys would not be able to accept this device back for replacement due to the nature of the problem with the item. If the goods have been damaged in any way then the device would only be eligible for repair.

The device would need to be assessed by Palm who would conclude whether or not the fault would be covered under the warranty, As they have informed you that the fault would not be covered by the warranty we see no other alternative than to send the device back to them for anything but a chargable repair.

The return can be handled by eXpansys who will ship the device to Palm on your behalf however the turnaround is normally much quicker if you go directly to palm.

That didn't wash with me. I replied:

I am not satisfied with a chargeable repair. I will be satisfied by a
repair or replacement with no cost to me.

Palm's Warranty does not affect my rights as a consumer. Under the
Sale of Goods Act, wherever goods are bought they must "conform to
contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and
of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of
sale). Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from
minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

I believe that my phone was inherently faulty at the time of sale as
it was not of satisfactory quality in respect of its durability. The 2
week old device was placed on a table after making a call and the next
time I came to use it the display had a crack in one of the layers.

Also under the Sale of Goods Act it is the seller, not the
manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

As I have requested a repair or replacement in the first six months
after contract it is the seller (Expansys) to prove that the goods did
conform to contract.

If you are unable to repair or replace the phone, I may have to try
and make a claim against you through the small claims court. That is
something that I am willing to do, but I would prefer to avoid.

That's where I am up to so far... I'll update if I hear anything further.

[comiken205]

Hey beezly,

Listen, I was not there when this took place. But, that looks to me like a drop. Do you have children? Do you have pets? If you do, then they could have caused some damage to your phone. Other than that. I don't know what to say. I mean, I have dropped my phone twice already and the screen did not look like that afterwards.

Once again, I was not there, but how are you to prove to the Seller that it was not done by mistreatment?

Lou

[beezly]

Hi Lou,

I live alone and I don't have any pets. If Palm or Expansys would like to contest whether it has been misused, they'll effectively have to call me a liar and I'm sure you'll agree that that would be poor customer service.

Also, in UK consumer law, if you ask for repair or replacement within the first 6 month of "contract" (contract basically means sale), then it is for the seller to prove that the goods were fit for contract at the time of sale. Basically it is up to the seller to prove that I broke it (and call me a liar!).

Beezly

[comiken205]

Hey Beezly,

Well, I do apologize if I sounded like a jury here. It just that from the picture, it looks like it was dropped. Who knows, it maybe be manufacturer defect. I am no scientist or engineer.

Well, good luck and it looks like the law is on your side.

Lou

[beezly]

Hi Lou,

No, sorry I didn't mean to suggest that!

Beezly

[beezly]

Well, Expansys got back to me

In correspondence to the points you have made it will not be possible
for eXpansys to offer a replacement, nor will we be able to offer a
"free" repair.

As the problem with the device would most likely be considered by
ourselves as user damage, eXpansys would be under no obligation to offer
either a repair (free of charge) or a replacement under these
circumstances.

The device would also not be covered by the warranty due to the location
of the problem, it is common place within the mobile device industry
that the screen is not covered by the warranty, in most cases any
problem with the screen of any given device would be classed as a
chargeable repair by the manufacturer, in this case it would be Palm.

Although you may feel that the goods were "not fit for purpose" the
device would have been in full working order when it left ourselves to
be shipped to you.

If you feel as though you are still not satisfied with the decision
eXpansys has taken over this matter, then I would suggest you take
advise, and pursue this case how you wish.

I have also included a copy of your Limited warranty agreement you're
your reference.

I replied:

Thank you for getting back to me.

Given that Expansys seem unable to fulfil their obligations under the
Sale of Goods Act, I will return the device to Palm for a chargeable
repair. Unless I hear back from Expansys with an offer to pay all my
losses in regard to the faulty device within 14 days, I will make a
claim against Expansys for my losses through the small claims
procedure at the county court.

Looks like I'll have my day in court!

[ralfo]

You need to see this from their point of view.....how do they really know you didnt crack it? I will be very hard for you to prove.

[beezly]

Hi Ralfo,

Nope - I don't need to see it from their point of view. I didn't misuse the phone. I didn't drop it. It was on a table.

Under UK Law (Sale of Goods Act), if I ask for repair or replacement it is the seller's responsibility to prove that the device was "fit for contract" when it was sold.

"Fit for contract" includes things like durability. As the 680 was only two weeks old, I consider it to have not been durable and therefore not fit for contract.

Apart from the crack in the display, the 680 is as new. There is not a single scratch or mark on the phone. Not even a fingerprint on the display!

[forgot]

I know this probably won't help, but a few years ago I was using a Tungsten E as my main device. The screen cracked SEVERAL times, but was replaced by Palm each time.

My reasoning, which seemed acceptable to them (at least at the time), was that the screens can be prone to spontaneously cracking due to humidity and temperature changes. As I live in Texas, its pretty easy to see how this could happen. (The old saying goes "If you don't like the weather in Texas, wait a minute")

[Maris]

As forgot mentioned (beat me to it) it is not unknown for Palm screens to spontaneously crack. When I was using my Tungsten C, there were many posts about screens cracking while they were on chargers, or sitting on desks (as your Treo was resting on the table). My own screen "died" without my touching it under similar circumstances to your case. I was using it, put it down, thought of something else, picked it up and when I turned it back on it brightened and then went striped. Like you, I took great care with it, even investing in a very expensive vaja case. I got a warranty repair because I had paid for the extra warranty. However, there were so many screens going bad, Palm finally limited it to one screen repair per unit, and only if you paid for the extra warranty. I haven't heard of that problem with Treos ... yet. This is my first Treo.